A raise is great but is 3.5% enough to keep up with the cost of living? If you were a teacher, would you consider jumping to another profession in order to make more money?
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School board OKs pay raise | Teachers, support staff get 3.5 percent for upcoming year
Joany Nazdin | Maryland Independent
The Charles County Board of Education signed a contract Tuesday giving teachers and support staff a 3.5 percent pay raise in the coming year.
Donald M. Wade, school board chairman, said he was pleased with the contract.
Bill Fisher, president of the Education Association of Charles County, the teachers union, was present at the meeting to sign the contract, but had some reservations about the amount of the cost-of-living raise given to the teachers.
‘‘We want to thank the board for the pay increase, but I can’t help but point out that this is the lowest cost-of-living increase for any county in Maryland,” Fisher said. ‘‘We are still underfunded around $3 million. Charles County has the most portable classrooms in the state of Maryland, and we are the fastest-growing county.”
‘‘Give us funding,” Fisher said, speaking of the county commissioners after the meeting, ‘‘not just words, stadiums and skating rinks.” MORE
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102 responses so far ↓
1 imissjerry // Jun 14, 2008 at 10:06 am
3.5% is not enough, however it is important to note that both the Board and Mr. Richmond did the best they could. The County Commissioners refusal to fund a budget that would have allowed for a 4.5% COLA is inexcusable IMO.
The Commissioners currently have a $70 million balance. Funding for an additional 1% would have cost them $2.5 million. It is particularly galling when you then pick up the Independent and learn that they have purchased 3 Explorers for their use with gas hovering near $4.00 per gallon.
I have to say that as a taxpayer and a teacher I have been extremely disappointed with the current County Commissioners.
2 richard // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:02 am
I think I’d have to agree so far.
3 Heather // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:55 am
The teachers aren’t the only ones dealing with small raises. I want them to have more, but let’s face it, times are tight. Shoot, with about $135 a week being gobbled up in gas tanks, it’s a bit overwhelming!
4 richard // Jun 14, 2008 at 7:07 pm
True, we’re all in a pinch. But given what i consider to be the educator’s crucial role on society, they deserve more…IMHO.
5 Heather // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Of course they DESERVE more. If I had a CHOICE I would have given teachers raises and bought a smaller, less expensive recreational facility.
What I’m saying is – everybody is dealing with the “cost of living” raise these days – and it sucks for everybody.
I agree teachers roles are important. I also have long advocated housing benefits of some sort for teachers, or breaks on prices or something. But, there are plenty of people out there who have valuable roles in society who are paid the same or less than teachers and have no medical or other benefits. At least teachers have good bennies.
If they can find the money somewhere in the budget to pay the teachers more, I’m all for it. But if it isn’t, I understand and I know why – because it’s tough for everybody right now.
6 richard // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Heather (5) – “Of course they DESERVE more”
You say this as if everyone is in agreement.
“What I’m saying is – everybody is dealing with the “cost of living” raise these days – and it sucks for everybody.”
I never disagreed.
“I also have long advocated housing benefits of some sort for teachers, or breaks on prices or something.”
I’ve always been against these sorts of “welfare” for teachers and other public servants. Why complicate the issue? Just pay them a decent wage and they can live like everyone else instead of seeking “special” teacher dorms or whatever.
From what I’ve seen, there is money in the budget…what is lacking is the public sentiment for the raises.
7 Heather // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:19 pm
RE HOUSING: Richard – how can you know what the housing would be like and how affordable it might be in any public school district? If you have an apartment complex or “dorms” then there would be a price limit and availability. There are lots of other reasons, but I’ll just toss those out there for now.
As for your first responses – your number 4 seemed to be in response of my number 3. It seemed like you were saying something like —
Yeah, we’re all in a pinch, that’s true…but…I think they deserve raises anyway. —-
And I thought it was in repsonse to my comment – therefore, those were *my* replies to what I thought were your “replies.” Sorry, guess you weren’t talking to me. Peace!
8 Heather // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Once you build dorms/apartments, the goverenment can make enough rent from them to at least self-sustain them. Once they are built they wouldn’t cost the taxpayer anything. The teachers would have a place to live for a long time to come and may attract more teachers. No matter what the housing market is like, there will always be a place for the educators that they can afford. That is in the community. That makes it possible for them to work at the school even after school for extra activites with kids if they want to, without having to commute far away. It’s better for the environement – they don’t drive so far – if it’s in walking distance they can walk – better for them, better for the kids, better for everybody and it’s an added benefit that can attract new teachers.
Raises can only go so far in this market. Having an affordable apartment might go a lot further than a 5% raise.
There are more benefits, but I’m watching x-men and the guys want me back out front.
9 richard // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:24 pm
“how can you know what the housing would be like and how affordable it might be in any public school district?”
I don’t.
“Yeah, we’re all in a pinch, that’s true…but…I think they deserve raises anyway.”
Yeah – that’s about it.
“And I thought it was in repsonse to my comment – therefore, those were *my* replies to what I thought were your “replies.” Sorry, guess you weren’t talking to me. Peace!”
I don’t understand what you are saying here…but Peace too i guess.
10 richard // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:27 pm
“Raises can only go so far in this market. Having an affordable apartment might go a lot further than a 5% raise.”
True, a 5% raise would only go so far but I’d probably advocate a much higher boost than that. In order to know EXACTLY how high a boost would require more research but I have a good feeling that many of them are due at least a 15 – 20% increase in salary (these are just ballpark figures off the cuff).
11 Heather // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:46 pm
I don’t think that’s very realistic, even though it would be nice.
12 Heather // Jun 14, 2008 at 11:51 pm
RICHARD –
“Heather (5) – “Of course they DESERVE more”
You say this as if everyone is in agreement.
>>I’m only speaking for myself Richard and in response to your comment – which was a response to MY comment – therefore, I thought we were commenting to each other. ???
***
I think it’s interesting you want to dish out bux for all teachers at percentages that might bankrupt the system, but you aren’t interested in assuring that affordable housing near where they work is somehow “complicating” things.
13 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 12:09 am
I want raises for teachers – whatever the budget and market can bear. To be clear.
I also think housing that is consisitantly affordable and available nearby is crucial.
I don’t think it even approaches welfare. Companies do the same thing for their employees all the time. They don’t consider it employee welfare. Providing affordable houses for teachers (who are paid from taxes) isn’t any more welfare than their salaries are.
14 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 12:31 am
What is a fair wage for a teacher?
According to http://www.aft.org/presscenter/releases/2007/salary_map.htm:
Issues with how much to pay teachers are centered around the fact that
a) They are public servants,
b) They’re pay is fixed, and
b) Teachers must attend college.
Factoring in those facts, you know that teachers a) don’t teach for the money, and b) all teachers come out of college owing a crap load of money just to be teachers. They truly do sacrifice for OUR children.
Unlike many industries, experience cannot get you a job as a teacher. You MUST attend college.
The issues a teacher must face are a little different than most of us.
As for the issue of housing, while not what I would consider to be welfare, it is a real issue. How can someone live in Charles County, and own a home on $50k a year with a family?
In real terms, if we don’t accommodate the fact that they are really on “fixed” incomes, and take care of them by paying them well, and providing good incentives to continue teaching, we will only create a vacuum in the most important institution our country has.
We really have our values twisted around in this country. You can really tell something about a country that values everything over the educators.
15 thrift_store_angel // Jun 15, 2008 at 2:01 am
imiss – Just out of curiousity, where is this $70 million and what is it currently allocated for?
16 imissjerry // Jun 15, 2008 at 6:00 am
I can’t remember the name Charles County gives the funds, but it’s the equivalent of what other jurisdictions sometime refer to as “Rainy Day” funds.
17 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 6:42 am
Heather (11) – As I said, I haven’t done hardcore research on the subject, I just suspect that it wouldn’t break the budget to raise teachers’ salaries to what i consider an adequate level.
Heather (12) – I understood your strong statement “Of course they DESERVE more” to mean there would be few that would disagree. I don’t think that this is the case, otherwise the raises would happen.
Heather (13) – On the housing issue we disagree.
18 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 6:42 am
Robert (14) – “We really have our values twisted around in this country. You can really tell something about a country that values everything over the educators.”
I couldn’t have said it better.
19 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 6:42 am
imissjerry – From the perspective of an educator, am I off the mark? Do you think a 15 – 20% raise across the board would improve the state of education or is it an excessive gift that does nothing more than break our “bank?”
20 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 7:03 am
imissjerry (16) – I’m not so sure that surpluses or “rainy day funds” are a good thing.
Individually, it’s a GREAT thing to save money but i think as far as government is concerned, a surplus is money sitting there just WAITING to be spent (on whatever frivolity our leaders can come up with).
I think that it may be a good idea that in the event of a surplus, simply give the money back – if there has been no purpose designated for it, it needn’t be there.
21 imissjerry // Jun 15, 2008 at 8:00 am
Richard (19): I have mixed feelings. I mean certainly I knew that I was never going to get wealthy by becoming a teacher. On the other hand, I have seen too many young teachers come here from other parts of the country, wooed by the high starting salaries only to suffer staggering sticker shock at the cost of living. This is particularly true with regard to housing.
I have also seen many young teachers leave education for the far more lucrative salaries of private industry. This is particularly true for science and math teachers. I think the problem where salaries are concerned is less one of teacher recruitment and more one of teacher retention. I’m not going anywhere, I have too much time in to leave and forfeit my retirement, etc. On the other hand, younger teachers can afford to make the move.
I think if we’re going to attract the best and brightest to the profession and then keep them here salaries have to improve dramatically.
22 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 8:11 am
I think that once upon a time, educators might have overlooked salary because in addition to the proud satisfaction of molding young minds, they also enjoyed the respect of the community.
In today’s society where the dollar is king, I think that people tend to disrespect the teaching profession for the VERY reason they should respect it: people enter it KNOWING they’ll never be rich. Instead, I think that the profession is mocked as one that is thankless and unrewarding. Perhaps education is in great need of a PR makeover!
23 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 8:31 am
I don’t believe there is any such thing as a “rainy day fund”… not sure what that means in respect to a government agency anyways.
24 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 8:44 am
Regarding the money matters, it helps to know how much teach salaries are part of the overall budget.
According to the CCBOE website, for every dollar spent, 67 cents goes towards classroom instuction, while 9 cents goes towards administration.
I cannot find any numbers anywhere that actually state how much teacher salaries are of the whole $280 million dollar budget. But, if it’s 67 cents on the dollar, than they represent 67 % of the total, which would be $187,600,000.
Source: The Charles County Board of Education Website
25 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:15 am
I agree with Richard that respect for the teaching profession seems to have dipped over the years. I’m not sure why that is.
Teachers spend the entired day with my child during the school season. I don’t know why anybody wouldn’t consider how important it is to be kind to and give teachers your respect. Also, when you find out your child has done something disrespectful – to have them APOLOGIZE.
As for raising salaries across the board – I’d like to harken to an older conversation we had here on the Cafe about salary and unions.
I feel that there should be more peformance based pay for teachers. The crappy teachers (and they do exsist – I’ve encountered them over the years) make the same amount as the excellent teachers. Why is that fair – fair for the excelling teachers and fair to the tax payers?
As for housing:
Let’s go back to the neighborhood way of doing things. A neighborhood has a few schools, firestation and police station. Put up apartments and townhomes. They can live in the community they serve. This has many benefits:
It could be a benefit that attracts more teachers to the area.
It could help reduce emissions by elimiating long commutes.
It helps them feel more emotionally invested in the community and therefore – YOUR CHILDREN.
****
Somebody suggested to me yesterday that they might not want dorms/apartments for those who make less money because it helps keep the community at a sort of “standard” – you know – keep out the rif-raff by making sure whoever has a high salary is in the community and everybody who isn’t – is out. That position is so stupid and so wrong that I don’t even know where to begin. The only thing I can say is that a lot of drug dealers can make a lot of money too.
26 Terry // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:24 am
It staggers me that a starting teacher only makes 37k….and that’s after a 4 year college education – other professions start at higher rates (I dont have specific data) – I have a teacher friend that interviewed recently for another position in private industry – a computer position and they were willing to start him more than what he makes as a teacher after 4 years of teaching……
You need teachers to get to those high salary paying positions – but we start them out at peanuts….I am not saying that they need to come out of college and start at a million dollars but I personally dont think 37k isnt enough after 4 years of education….
I am a 12 month support employee, just a few years of college, and I make more than 4-5 year teachers – it astounds me…..
27 Terry // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:26 am
You gotta really love what you do in order to be a teacher – and I have seen that in my years as a school board employee……it surely aint about the money…..
28 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:26 am
Now that you mention it, I spoke to a teacher a few weeks ago who will be leaving her position and going private industry.
Sad….
I once wanted to teach but that is a pipe dream now considering the salaries vs. my financial needs. Perhaps in another life….
29 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:28 am
Terry (27) – “You gotta really love what you do in order to be a teacher”
That’s the thing. I can understand a teacher who stays in it though they don’t make a load of money. BUT….when you get no support from the administration and are constantly under attack from parents…who the hell needs it?????
30 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:29 am
Richard – perhaps you need to have only 100 things in your life?
31 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:30 am
It sure is a nice thought but i just don’t know if I’ll get there!
32 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:32 am
As it happens, I don’t think it is the “things” in my life that are the most expensive.
33 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:33 am
Terry : I know $37k is not a lot, but there are a lot of industries where that’s the top of the dollar figure. However, the average teacher salary is in the $50’s, which is a decent wage.
Of course, living in the D.C. area, the cost of living is so high, that what’s a decent wage doesn’t mean a livable wage.
I think the citizens of Charles should really be demanding higher pay for their teachers. The better paid they are, the better job they will do. And that benefits all of us.
34 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:35 am
Well, let’s get the Gov’t to toss more than $30 million at the plug-in car technology, get weaned off of oil, and pay our teachers buckets more!
Holy crap, do you realize if those 3 things happened just how different this country would be in 10 years?
35 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:36 am
Robert (33) – “I think the citizens of Charles should really be demanding higher pay for their teachers. The better paid they are, the better job they will do. And that benefits all of us.”
I think if people truly consider the importance of these educators and HOW BIG a role they play in the development of tomorrow’s leaders…it would seem like a small but worthwhile investment in our future.
36 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:38 am
Robert (34) – The thing always weighing on my mind is what could be done with the money that has been sunk into (and continues to flow) Iraq.
37 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:41 am
I don’t think a tax-payer fuled industry can support the kind of money teachers deserve.
Just like social workers. Highly underappreciated and not paid well enough.
38 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:45 am
Heather (37) – True, social workers are under appreciated and underpaid but I’d suggest that the difference is that teachers touch ALL children pretty much every day for 12 – 13 of the most formative years of their lives.
39 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 10:06 am
Richard – I hope they DON’T touch every child. Eww. That’s icky.
40 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 10:10 am
(ignoring Robert’s horrible joke)
I agree with all of your comment Richard except the “but” part – which feels like you are saying the role of teachers to a child is more important than a Social worker – is that what the “but” means?
41 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 10:12 am
The reason I ask is because often social workers end up dealing with the most at-risk children out there and that’s most of what they see all day long every day they work.
They are very important to the welfare of poor, starving, homeless children in many cases.
42 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 10:25 am
Heather (40) – on the while yes, that is what I’m saying.
43 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 10:25 am
Heather (41) – i agree that social workers are very important.
44 Terry // Jun 15, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Robert – I know what teachers make – I know what they just got as an increase – and no, its not the average – its under 50k by a long shot….
As I was saying – I make more right now than teachers who have been teaching for over 4-5 years – and i am just a support figure without college – you can probably figure that out…..
45 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Terry – I am not trying to argue with you.. but YOUR government states that Maryland has the 6th highest average salary, at $52,330.
Of course, an average is only that. I am sure there are plenty of extremes in that range that average out to $52,330. But, according to those statistics, Maryland teachers are also above the national average.
46 Terry // Jun 15, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Robert – not saying that you are arguing with me…..but i know what i make without a college degree and i know what they make with a degree and there is big difference – even with teachers having taught for 4 to 5 years already….and that’s sad – and its way under 50k and its a shame….
47 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Yes Terry, I concur. And, as I said earlier:
But I also stated that if the CCBOE website is correct, teacher salaries equate to 67% of every dollar spent by the BOE.
Since the BOE is 50% paid by the state, 49% paid by CC, and 1% paid by the Feds, the only place where we have any influence on the total amount we can spend is the local amount. If we want CC employees to make more, we have to make up the difference somewhere… like raising taxes.
48 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Robert (47) – Just to be clear, I’m fine with my taxes going up if I know the rate increase will go directly to the educators…which of course we probably cannot guarantee.
49 Tony Penny // Jun 15, 2008 at 2:27 pm
It’s not enough to say “the money should go to educators.” Shouldn’t there be some benchmarks with which to hold educators responsible like test scores? And if those benchmarks aren’t met do we get a rebate?
50 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Yes, there should be benchmarks. Are there NO benchmarks now?
I think an across the board increase should go in to effect and immediately all teachers should be held to higher standards…or at least any current standards that aren’t being enforced.
51 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 3:09 pm
The issue of compensation at the moment is via a union mediated contractual agreement. There is no sense of competition; this is probably the basis for the issue in the first place.
If we want to improve the education system, we need to fund it better, and insure that there are reasonable methods to reduce the amount of poor teachers in the system.
How can you benchmark a teacher? In many ways, the education system each teacher is in dictates some of what the teacher is doing. But there is no standard across the country. Education is a City by city, county by county thing. Educators in Alexandria have a different expectation than those of Charles, Prince Georges or Orange County.
As long as the local government dictates what is proper education, you can’t have a consensus.
In many ways, the very benchmark that was intended to provide insight into the effectiveness of our education system, the “No Child Left Behind Act,” does exactly the opposite. It only force my children to get a cram course in the standards tests right before they are taken. They are not really measuring anything.
52 Robert // Jun 15, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Poor in that last statement, was in terms of performance, not wealth.
53 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Richard – how do you feel about military housing?
54 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Heather (53) – Can you be more specific with your question?
55 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Do you feel military housing is “welfare” for military?
56 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Heather (55) – No, I don’t.
57 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Why is it that you don’t consider military housing welfare, but housing for firefighters, police, teachers and other public servants is?
58 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 8:15 pm
It’s an entirely different model. Firefighters, police and teachers are civilians.
Just to throw in some more confusion, I’ve often advocated dormatories for the Congress and Senate in order to cut costs.
59 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 8:18 pm
That is confusing.
60 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 8:19 pm
And I don’t feel it’s entirely different. It’s a bit different, but not entirely.
61 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Agree to disagree I guess.
62 Heather // Jun 15, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Do you care do explain? I don’t understand how one is welfare and the others aren’t.
63 richard // Jun 15, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Well…the military is a self-contained organization tasked with boarding all of its members. College is similar in this area and I have no problem with dormitories here either.
Education, law enforcement and firefighting are professions. Why would we offer special living arrangements for them when we wouldn’t for the folks working at Burger King or the Post Office or some corporation in DC?
64 Heather // Jun 16, 2008 at 12:34 am
Who decided they are “tasked with boarding all of its members” ? That had to come from somewhere – somebody decided that.
Why is it okay for the military to have this task and why do you readily accept it but not for teachers and firefighters and police?
Your explination that they are self-contained and that they are tasked with boarding, doesn’t really answer the question.
Are you comparing teachers and other forms of public service to working at fast food or other private enterprises?
The military is paid via our taxes. They serve the community. Teachers, firefighters and police serve the community and are paid with taxes.
You admit that teachers should be better compensated. What if giving them housing was a more affordable option for the taxpayers and an attractive offer for the teachers? What if the teachers like that idea and consider it a bonus? Since you are for looking out for teachers, would this not be a fair solution, especially if it improved the ability of the individual to serve the community and afford better to live in it?
As for corporations – there are some that provide corporate housing. They are private enterprises so they pay for that with their private money. Teachers and firefighters and police are not in a private industry.
I really think I must be missing the crux of your position on this. Or am unable to consolidate your beliefs that in one instance it’s welfare and in another the same provision is not. ???
65 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 6:14 am
I’ve tried answering you on this and even said let’s agree to disagree but you don’t seem satisfied with my answers.
I don’t know what else to say.
66 Tracy // Jun 16, 2008 at 7:18 am
Heather, my understanding of the military is that they have to be “self-contained units” so that they can pick people up and place them anywhere, and they have their own little town. That’s why forts and bases have their own stores, housing, etc. Teachers, firefighters and police officers can pick the town where they want to live.
67 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 7:23 am
Richard – I understand why Heather is confused. It seems as if you are riding both sides of the fence. For some reason, the “public service” that the military gives for you is different than the “public service” the non-military receive.
However, I am not certain how the military COULD function if it didn’t provide housing. I suppose it would be akin to the way the Roman empire operated… where you deployed wherever, but your family didn’t come along. I think that’s a tough sell for the U.S. armed forces, and we’d have a dickens of a time getting recruits. One of the reasons we get recruits to join is because we allow the family to travel with (under certain circumstances, such as based on the length of the deployment, etc).
IMHO I think there ought to be a way to help teachers that is more than just providing decent pay. I believe offering something like subsidized housing, or special low interest loans (like the HUD or Vet loans) for teachers is something we shouldv’e been doing a long time ago, if in fact we don’t do that already. And this should be a federal program. Not state sponsored.
As the teachers are in a sense on a fixed income (assuming they only do the one job of being a teacher), I believe that offering those types of incentives helps insure that the teachers aren’t pining for private industry…. where they can get paid and live well at the same time.
68 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 7:28 am
I understand what Heather (and you) are saying.
I just feel that the only thing that teachers need that they don’t have is a much better wage. They are perfectly capable of finding their own living spaces.
I see NO NEED for more federal programs when a more simple solution is raising their wages.
69 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 7:34 am
Richard – I understand your position. But feel that the issue of wages transcends county/city/state lines. There is no “national standard wage” issued by the Feds. It’s mediated by the union in each location. This amounts to a difference in wage from one location to the next. This is why we in Maryland have the 6th highest average wage. There are 5 states with higher average teacher salaries, but 44 with lower salaries.
And while Tracy you are correct in that they can choose where they live, being a teacher is not a competetive profession (from a salary standpoint). So, the only thing a teacher can do to get paid more, is move to a new county/city that has higher salaries. That’s a pretty extreme solution.
70 imissjerry // Jun 16, 2008 at 7:37 am
I agree with what Richard is saying, if you pay teachers enough money they can afford to find their own places to live.
On the other hand, a loan program that would allow teachers to purchase a home with a smaller down payment or perhaps even no down payment would also be a significant way to assist them.
In our area many teachers with two incomes, even if they’re both teachers, can afford a mortgage payment on their own after the’ve been teaching a few years. At least if they’re willing to begin with a townhouse. What they can’t manage to do with the cost-of-living is save enough for a down payment.
Also, if the system were to provide some sort of reduced cost child-care it would help. Many younger teachers want to start families and find that the cost of child-care, particularly for an infant, is prohibitive.
71 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 7:40 am
So let’s say we do this. Will there be loans for other occupations who make the same as teachers or are teachers in a special situation deserving of the loans?
I’m just curious about the slippery slope it might create.
72 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 7:57 am
Richard – I believe that this is an issue that few other occupations have. Consider these “benefits” as things that come with the occupation.
I don’t know what other occupations have the same issues that teachers have.
73 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 7:58 am
Richard – BTW there are special loans provided for special circumstances. Student loans and VET loans for example.
74 Tracy // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:04 am
I have always felt that fire fighters, police officers and teachers are underpaid, considering our dependence on them. BUT, that’s my opinion, and I don’t have a handy Wiki link to prove this.
75 Tracy // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:04 am
76 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:05 am
Tracy (74) – That’s pretty much what I’ve been trying to say.
77 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:06 am
Well, I guess there will always be “civil servants” that are underpaid. The issue with underpayment of course is losing people to private industry.
In the end, we can hope that the inidivuals are willing to work for less, since they are serving the public.
But, anyone who wants to make a good living usually needs to seek work outside the employ of the government.
As long as the pay remains the way it is, this will always be an issue.
78 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:10 am
Richard – I will agree with you that if the pay was increased substantially then they wouldn’t have most of the issues they currently have.
Housing would be more affordable, day care would be more affordable, etc.
79 Tracy // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:13 am
#78 – and our taxes would be higher. We, as taxpayers, would need to accept that reality and make the decision that it is worth it to us to pay higher taxes so that we can attract and keep good teachers, police officers and fire fighters. OR – cut back elsewhere in the budget.
80 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:16 am
If i know that the higher taxes will go directly to these people then I’d have no problem.
81 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:16 am
Tracy – Yes, that’s true.
As I said #15:
I still would like to know what we feel a fair wage for teachers is.
82 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:19 am
Richard – If the salaries for teachers were increased to some level that satiated their need to get paid “a decent wage,” it’s reasonable to assume that any tax increase would ultimately be used to pay them. I can’t see any way that a tax increase would be passed with some reference to the teachers salaries, and then they don’t get the raise.
83 Tracy // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:20 am
I wonder where teachers’ starting salaries are in comparison to other jobs where a college degree is required.
84 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:25 am
Tracy – while I don’t have a link to prove so, it is my experience that most college graduates start out at a higher salary than those with a degree. It might be misinformation, but that is the commonly held belief.
85 Tracy // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:26 am
Ok – teachers in CC start at $37, 125
Figure 1: Top 10 highest paying curriculum areas for bachelor?s degree candidates*
Pharmacy1 $65,747
Petroleum engineering $49,892
Computer engineering $49,505
Chemical engineering $49,000
Computer science $48,740
Electrical/electronics engineering $48,492
Mechanical engineering $45,617
Industrial/manufacturing engineering $45,612
Metallurgical engineering $45,209
Management information systems $45,657
* Average annual starting salary offer, based on areas that had 50 or more offers reported. 1 Pharmacy is a five-year degree program.
Source: Summer 2000 Salary Survey, National Association of Colleges and Employers.
86 Tracy // Jun 16, 2008 at 8:29 am
Here’s another link to starting salary info.
87 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 9:02 am
Robert (82) – Don’t you know how government works???
88 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 9:03 am
Tracy (85) – It be great to see teachers somewhere in the middle of that top ten.
89 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 9:05 am
While we’re at it (and this IS a completely different topic) I’d like to see the salaries of senators and congressmen CUT and dorms built for them so that there’d be no whining about having to maintain two residences.
90 Robert // Jun 16, 2008 at 9:09 am
Our representatives are not residents of D.C. They are actually residents of the state they represent. This is a more complicated issue than it appears on the surface.
91 imissjerry // Jun 16, 2008 at 9:11 am
Actually, teachers in CC start at $42,425. Still not in the top 10 but slightly better than Tracy’s figures.
But when you take into consideration that we are in one of the most expensive regions in the nation with regard to cost-of-living it isn’t great.
Also, while our starting salary is very competitive, the problem is once you get to about the 5-year point, it is much less attractive compared to other school systems and/or the private sector. Consequently what often happens is Charles County becomes a training ground where teachers come to get experience. In the end you have teachers who have finally developed their skills taking off for greener pastures.
Again, I want to reiterate that this is not a criticism of Mr. Richmond or the Board. They are very aware and very supportive of teachers.
92 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 9:13 am
Robert (90) – How does their residency make it complicated? When they come to DC to conduct business, they can be provided with quarters while they are in town. That would remove any justification for a higher salary based upon the need for two residences.
93 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 9:15 am
Here’s a bigger issue I think: What do all of you think about the level of respect teachers receive among the general populace?
In your daily encounters, do most people highly respect teachers or do you feel that most don’t respect them?
94 Heather // Jun 16, 2008 at 10:15 am
I do understand why bases provide housing, and I do understand the differences. I just don’t understand how civil servants are so vastly different. They may get to choose the city they work in, but they may not be able to afford housing or even find available housing in some of the markets they work in.
I don’t think the tax paying public could ever pay civil servants what they deserve and therefore I think providing cost effective benefits would greatly help attract and retain teachers. If we could start teachers out at $70k a year – that’d be great – but I just don’t think that’s very realistic. I’m not sure the tax payers could shoulder that much of a burden of that high of a salary for every new teacher.
If I were a new teacher getting out of school and looking for where to stay, I would probably like to see the following:
* Low cost housing in the neighborhood of the school – bike riding distance at least.
* A “media center” at my disposal with computers, wireless, and other tools they can use.
*The ability to stay in the housing while I pay off my student loan.
*The ability to upgrade to more family size subsidized housing if my family grows during that 5 years.
I wouldn’t mind starting out at a lower pay out of school if I had housing nearby. Then after the 5 year mark my salary takes a nice size jump.
**Medical, dental, optical – all should be included for myself and a spouse OR domestic partner.
That said, Richard, what salaries would you like to see for teachers?
Richard – do you *only* look at salary when you look for a job?
95 Heather // Jun 16, 2008 at 10:18 am
92 – Richard – I think it’s a great idea to provide dorms for congress.
96 Heather // Jun 16, 2008 at 10:21 am
93 – I think the level is mixed based on the experiences of the parents and their ability to be civil.
I respect teachers very much. They all start off on the same respect level for me. However, some of them have made me not respect them by things they have done or the ways they have behaved. That is on an individual basis though based on the way they conduct themselves. They always start out with my trust and respect, but like anybody else, they can ruin it.
Also, if I find out Jade has been running her mouth in class or something – I make her apologize and remind her that the teacher is at WORK and doing their JOB and it’s rude to interrupt people who are doing their jobs. I think kids forget sometimes because they are in there for so long every day.
97 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 10:27 am
Heather (94) – Salary must be a consideration but the main things I look at for a prospective job are proximity to home and if I’ll enjoy the job.
98 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 10:29 am
Heather (96) – “Also, if I find out Jade has been running her mouth in class or something – I make her apologize and remind her that the teacher is at WORK and doing their JOB and it’s rude to interrupt people who are doing their jobs. I think kids forget sometimes because they are in there for so long every day.”
Great point. I think that there are a GREAT many parents out there who think that their children are angels and can do no wrong. This of course is a natural extension of how they view themselves.
99 Heather // Jun 16, 2008 at 11:09 am
“proximity to home” is something I think a LOT of folks look for – it’s a wonderful benefit. Even hard to come by in many markets. By providing housing in the community and a job they know they want to do along with a competitive wage we’re sure to lock in some great teachers.
If housing is realistic that the taxpayers can do it and makes the teachers happy too – I don’t see how it can hurt.
100 Heather // Jun 16, 2008 at 11:11 am
Oh yes, there are all sorts of parents – those who think their kids are angels all the time and those who don’t care that they aren’t.
On another point – if Jade does something the teacher doesn’t tell me about – I can’t discuss it with her. She has had teachers who keep very regular touch with us and others who I met once at open house and didn’t hear from all year.
101 Tracy // Jun 16, 2008 at 11:21 am
But, my kids really are angels. Bwa-ha-ha-ha! Oh, that was funny.
102 richard // Jun 16, 2008 at 11:26 am
Mine too.
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